Comments on: Wait a Minute, How Do You Play Pot-Limit Again?

By: Andrew Hime

Andrew Hime — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 05:04:36 +0000

Open raise in PL is 3.5xBB if SB is .5xBB.

By: Tex Flaniken

Tex Flaniken — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:42:19 +0000

Some of the problem surrounding this issue comes from the disparity of semantics between old-timers such as myself and the young guns of today who are playing the game of hold ‘em poker. In the “old days” of three or four years ago, when playing pot limit a player could call the previous bet and raise whatever amount he/she wanted to declare between the amount of what that previous bet might have been and the total amount that was in the pot subsequent to the called bet (and could say “I call and raise”). The young guns of today have a different no-limit action vocabulary.

Much to my surprise, chagrin, and dismay, when (although I had been “experienced” in playing no-limit hold ‘em action in the WSOP at Binion’s for several years, and where I had never been reprimanded nor dissuaded from doing so) when I began playing no-limit here locally in the Central Texas area, I could not use the term “I call and raise”. NOT ALLOWED! In the young-gun poker-action vocabulary of today (and I have to bow to the numbers, there are so many more young guns of today than old-timers such as myself playing hold ‘em these days), there can be no such thing as using the term “I call and raise”. The only terminology allowed in declaring action are “I fold”, “I call”, “I bet”, “I raise”, and/or “I am all in”. The term “I call and raise” gets truncated (shut down) at “I call”.

Now my question to you is “In your recent pot-limit action, did you have anyone in your game whereby when addressing the issue of calculating (for the purpose of raising, etc.) the amount of the pot who chould have used the term “I call and raise the pot”"? HOUSE RULES, etc. It might have helped in determining the amount of chips he needed to ultimately shove into the pot.

My basic point is that you were – once upon a time – playing the game right!

But if no one understands that the term “I call and raise” is permissible language and is a permissible player action, then perhaps we (all of us that play the two games) have to either (1) recognize a key difference in the rules for pot-limit action and no-limit action. To whit, whereby the term “I call and raise” has in the past been and still should be permissible, useful, and required within the basic rules for pot-limit action and whereby the same term “I call and raise” has no place in the rules and/or play in the new-age world of no-limit hold ‘em poker. Or, (2) both the term “I call and raise” and the corresponding, intended action is being dropped from the permissible set of terms that are available to any player for both types of hold ‘em action. To whit, such being the case, the “PS2 WSOP” rules, that you to which you alluded (I have no personal experience, etc.) will be the new guide.

There could be a third possibility – that being – to introduce the term “I call and raise” into the set of rules for the game of no-limit hold ‘em action. But I suspect (because of the number of players involved and their mindset on the matter) that such a possibility is hopelessly futile.

I have no personal experience with how the on-line poker sites handle the “betting” options for pot-limit action. Perhaps some opinions of on-line, pot-limit action players can be solicited.

By: DealerZach

DealerZach — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:32:58 +0000

I deal pot limit games once or twice a week. I was trained to make it 4 times the big blind, count the small blind as a full call. Our game is 1-2 PL with 5 to come in so our omaha game is actually 1-2 5 to come in and 20 to pot it under the gun becouse of the 5 to come in. if it was’nt 5 to come in then it would be 8 to pot under the gun.

By: Bob

Bob — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:11:25 +0000

According to Robert’s Rules of Poker:

“The rules of no-limit play also apply to pot-limit play, except that a bet may not exceed the pot size. The maximum amount a player can raise is the amount in the pot after the call is made. Therefore, if a pot is $100, and someone makes a $50 bet, the next player can call $50 and raise the pot $200, for a total wager of $250.”

By: uncle ray

uncle ray — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:00:28 +0000

Two separate sources include the amount it takes to call in the pot prior to the calculation of the pot limit, so it seems you had always done it correctly. Therefore you CANNOT shrink your losses. What you lost, you lost. Nice try, though. But gamblers never get credit for creativity if they lose.

1)SuperiorPoker.com
Maximum raise: The size of the pot. The size of the pot is defined as the total of the Pot in the middle plus all bets on the table plus the amount the active player must first call before raising.

To see how the calculation of the raise limit would work, assume youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re playing a game with $1-$2 blinds. The next player can fold, call the $2, or raise by placing between $4 and $7 in the pot. If the player bets $4, heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s raised the minimum, because the previous bet was $2, and heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s doubling that.
If the player bets $7, heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s betting the maximum, because heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s first calling the $2 blind bet, creating a total pot size of $5, then raising the size of the pot. The $2 call plus the $5 raise yields the $7 bet.

2)PokerEurope.com
Maximum eligible raise: The size of the pot. The size of the pot is defined as the total of the pot in the middle plus all bets on the table plus the amount the active player must first call before raising. As an example, the pot in the middle is $20 and the first player to act in the round bets $15 and the next player calls $15… the third player has a maximum eligible total bet of $80. The $80 total is his $15 call and $65 raise. The $65 max raise portion is equal to the pot of $20 + first player’s $15 + second player’s $15 + his own call of $15. Computing maximum raises can get tricky and we suggest you practice computing maximums before playing.