Comments on: The Texas-Alaska Poker Pipeline http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/ Texas Hold'em and Las Vegas WSOP Poker Blog, now with PLO too! Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:03:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: DanM http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/comment-page-1/#comment-6749 DanM Sun, 03 Dec 2006 01:41:50 +0000 http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/#comment-6749 **Here is a copy of email I sent to J.D. Miles at NBC 5:** Umm, JD Miles works for Channel 11. I'm just sayin' ... **Here is a copy of email I sent to J.D. Miles at NBC 5:**

Umm, JD Miles works for Channel 11. I’m just sayin’ …

]]> By: Federalism http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/comment-page-1/#comment-5924 Federalism Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:41:02 +0000 http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/#comment-5924 There's nothing shady going on with cooperation between the Treasury Department and local law enforcement. Underground card rooms violate state laws that prohibit gambling and, unless they declare income and pay taxes accordingly, federal income tax laws. The DPD doesn't enforce federal law - the feds do. By planning an operation with local law enforcement, they have not trampled any principles of federalism. Besides, it seems much more likely to me that it happened the other way around. DPD probably requested help from the Treasury Department as opposed to the Treasury Department suggesting a raid. I think the raids are as silly as anyone. But the way to stop them is to lift the prohibition on running games the way card rooms run them. The unfortunate raids won't stop until that happens. Since that's a legislative change, it seems that the focus in the meantime should be on convincing the DPD that the specific manner in which the raids are conducted is wrong. Maybe this is what you're getting at when you talk about applying pressure to stop the raids. As everyone reading this already knows, a SWAT presence at any of these games is entirely unnecessary. No poker player I've ever met in Dallas is interested in a shootout with the police. There’s nothing shady going on with cooperation between the Treasury Department and local law enforcement. Underground card rooms violate state laws that prohibit gambling and, unless they declare income and pay taxes accordingly, federal income tax laws. The DPD doesn’t enforce federal law – the feds do. By planning an operation with local law enforcement, they have not trampled any principles of federalism. Besides, it seems much more likely to me that it happened the other way around. DPD probably requested help from the Treasury Department as opposed to the Treasury Department suggesting a raid.

I think the raids are as silly as anyone. But the way to stop them is to lift the prohibition on running games the way card rooms run them. The unfortunate raids won’t stop until that happens.

Since that’s a legislative change, it seems that the focus in the meantime should be on convincing the DPD that the specific manner in which the raids are conducted is wrong. Maybe this is what you’re getting at when you talk about applying pressure to stop the raids. As everyone reading this already knows, a SWAT presence at any of these games is entirely unnecessary. No poker player I’ve ever met in Dallas is interested in a shootout with the police.

]]> By: Scott Chaffin http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/comment-page-1/#comment-5917 Scott Chaffin Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:26:21 +0000 http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/#comment-5917 Bingo. That's why I would like to see a journalist dig into this aspect of the raids. Fun window-breakage by the shock troops caught live on tape for teevee is a ratings-getter. But if our local police are being directed to do that by DoJ, DoT, USDA, HHS, DHS, what-the-eff-ever...we need to know about that. Bingo. That’s why I would like to see a journalist dig into this aspect of the raids. Fun window-breakage by the shock troops caught live on tape for teevee is a ratings-getter. But if our local police are being directed to do that by DoJ, DoT, USDA, HHS, DHS, what-the-eff-ever…we need to know about that.

]]> By: dbone http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/comment-page-1/#comment-5915 dbone Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:14:28 +0000 http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/#comment-5915 I don't think it's that hard to figure out why the treasury department has an interest in bringing illegal poker houses down. I don't think their interest is poker players...or even dealers for that matter. I doubt that any of the dealers had to answer any questions about themselves at all. It's been proven time and time again...with Aces bust, as well as all these others...that it's tough to make a conviction stick for local law enforcement. So where do they go instead? To the bureaus that are going to care the most that millions upon millions of untaxed money is funnelling through businesses that are not regulated. That's where there going to make convictions stick, and that's a whole lot scarier to the owners than a Class A misdemeanor gambling charge. I don’t think it’s that hard to figure out why the treasury department has an interest in bringing illegal poker houses down. I don’t think their interest is poker players…or even dealers for that matter. I doubt that any of the dealers had to answer any questions about themselves at all. It’s been proven time and time again…with Aces bust, as well as all these others…that it’s tough to make a conviction stick for local law enforcement. So where do they go instead? To the bureaus that are going to care the most that millions upon millions of untaxed money is funnelling through businesses that are not regulated. That’s where there going to make convictions stick, and that’s a whole lot scarier to the owners than a Class A misdemeanor gambling charge.

]]> By: Scott Chaffin http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/comment-page-1/#comment-5904 Scott Chaffin Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:18:26 +0000 http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/#comment-5904 <i>supposedly wearing jackets that said “JUSTICE”</i> I don't care if it was the USDA looking for mis-spent mohair subsidies. My point is the same -- what are feds doing in local raids? Why are they talking to the arrestees? We all know the feds, states, counties and cities do joint task force stuff, and I have no problem with that, necessarily. But it's another thread to pull on to start unravelling the meaning of the raids, and where we can/should/might apply pressure to stop them. supposedly wearing jackets that said “JUSTICE”

I don’t care if it was the USDA looking for mis-spent mohair subsidies. My point is the same — what are feds doing in local raids? Why are they talking to the arrestees? We all know the feds, states, counties and cities do joint task force stuff, and I have no problem with that, necessarily. But it’s another thread to pull on to start unravelling the meaning of the raids, and where we can/should/might apply pressure to stop them.

]]> By: poker player http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/comment-page-1/#comment-5903 poker player Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:58:56 +0000 http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/#comment-5903 Here is a copy of email I sent to J.D. Miles at NBC 5: In regards to the recent poker raids in Dallas, I think the police could find better use of their resources to fight “real” crimes in Dallas. As a poker player, I resent being called a criminal for playing poker in local rooms. I am a law abiding citizen who pays taxes that pays Dallas swat salaries. I have a professional job and a family. I don’t drink, use illegal drugs or participate in illegal activities. If Texas government would smarten up and legalize casinos in Texas, we would not have to travel out of state or go underground to play. Texas is losing millions of dollars to Nevada, Oklahoma, Louisiana and other states. The money we spend on traveling, lodging, food and gambling could benefit our state a whole lot. As far as the local rooms charging a lot to play in, all casinos charge a percentage of our money to play as well. The rates are comparable or slightly higher to any casino, but we save traveling expenses so it really evens out. The rooms are not seedy as the media and police lead you to believe, most are nice facilities. They are clean, secure and most provide snacks and food. I hear more about fights, drugs, shootings and other problems at local bars and clubs than I have ever seen at poker rooms. Most poker players are like me, just looking to have a little fun playing poker with friends. We do not cause problems or hurt anyone. There are prominent people in Dallas that play at local poker room, including police, lawyers, doctors, judges, city officials and local news personalities. I know this for a fact, because I have played with them. I think it is time for all poker player to unite and pressure our political representatives to legalize gambling and poker in Texas, for all to benefit from! Respectfully, A poker player Here is a copy of email I sent to J.D. Miles at NBC 5:
In regards to the recent poker raids in Dallas, I think the police could find better use of their resources to fight “real” crimes in Dallas.
As a poker player, I resent being called a criminal for playing poker in local rooms. I am a law abiding citizen who pays taxes that pays Dallas swat salaries.
I have a professional job and a family. I don’t drink, use illegal drugs or participate in illegal activities.
If Texas government would smarten up and legalize casinos in Texas, we would not have to travel out of state or go underground to play. Texas is losing millions of dollars to Nevada, Oklahoma, Louisiana and other states. The money we spend on traveling, lodging, food and gambling could benefit our state a whole lot.
As far as the local rooms charging a lot to play in, all casinos charge a percentage of our money to play as well. The rates are comparable or slightly higher to any casino, but we save traveling expenses so it really evens out.
The rooms are not seedy as the media and police lead you to believe, most are nice facilities. They are clean, secure and most provide snacks and food. I hear more about fights, drugs, shootings and other problems at local bars and clubs than I have ever seen at poker rooms. Most poker players are like me, just looking to have a little fun playing poker with friends. We do not cause problems or hurt anyone.
There are prominent people in Dallas that play at local poker room, including police, lawyers, doctors, judges, city officials and local news personalities. I know this for a fact, because I have played with them.
I think it is time for all poker player to unite and pressure our political representatives to legalize gambling and poker in Texas, for all to benefit from!

Respectfully,

A poker player

]]> By: DanM http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/comment-page-1/#comment-5897 DanM Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:00:21 +0000 http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/#comment-5897 Scott, the non-Dallas cops were supposedly wearing jackets that said "JUSTICE". Dept. of Justice maybe? If so, then it can't be the IRS, because they are the Dept. of the Treasury, no? I'm not sure how the Federal gov works anymore ... maybe all the various men in black are one in the same. And re: DPD, I am not disagreeing with you. I'm just not ready to scream bloody <s>murder</s> misdemeanor yet, until I can find out more ... and see where authorities (which as far as I can tell include the city, county, state, and/or feds) try to go with it all. Scott, the non-Dallas cops were supposedly wearing jackets that said “JUSTICE”. Dept. of Justice maybe? If so, then it can’t be the IRS, because they are the Dept. of the Treasury, no? I’m not sure how the Federal gov works anymore … maybe all the various men in black are one in the same.

And re: DPD, I am not disagreeing with you. I’m just not ready to scream bloody murder misdemeanor yet, until I can find out more … and see where authorities (which as far as I can tell include the city, county, state, and/or feds) try to go with it all.

]]> By: Scott Chaffin http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/comment-page-1/#comment-5894 Scott Chaffin Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:23:31 +0000 http://pokerati.com/2006/11/22/the-texas-alaska-poker-pipeline/#comment-5894 <i>pinning the brunt of dismay specifically on the Dallas police</i> Absent any other evidence, where do we pin it? According to what we learned from the exclusive CBS11 video: - the Dallas police planned it, complete with white boards and dry erase markers. - the Dallas police asked for the warrant. - the Dallas police undercover officers gathered the evidence needed for the warrant. - the Dallas police chose to use their Special WEAPONS ASSAULT team to execute the warrant. - a Dallas police official spent considerable face time on the exclusive video explaining why they were raiding the games, and there was no hint of anything external to the Dallas police -- "just doing their jobs protecting the citizenry", to paraphrase. Now, I'd also say that we do have an inkling of other possible pressures on DPD to perform these actions. We need to determine if it's an absolute fact that one of those arrested spent any amount of time discussing things with somebody from the IRS. Because I can't picture IRS agents just lounging around at the Lew Sterrett Center for Eternal Justice at midnight on a Friday hoping for an enormous money-centric bust. Or maybe our federal agents <i>are</i> spending their free time bonding with our local po-po. Or maybe it's SOP for our PD to phone up the revenooers when they take down these hardened gamblers, which seems to violate some principle of federalism to this hayseed. Dunno...someone go find out. pinning the brunt of dismay specifically on the Dallas police

Absent any other evidence, where do we pin it? According to what we learned from the exclusive CBS11 video:
- the Dallas police planned it, complete with white boards and dry erase markers.
- the Dallas police asked for the warrant.
- the Dallas police undercover officers gathered the evidence needed for the warrant.
- the Dallas police chose to use their Special WEAPONS ASSAULT team to execute the warrant.
- a Dallas police official spent considerable face time on the exclusive video explaining why they were raiding the games, and there was no hint of anything external to the Dallas police — “just doing their jobs protecting the citizenry”, to paraphrase.

Now, I’d also say that we do have an inkling of other possible pressures on DPD to perform these actions. We need to determine if it’s an absolute fact that one of those arrested spent any amount of time discussing things with somebody from the IRS. Because I can’t picture IRS agents just lounging around at the Lew Sterrett Center for Eternal Justice at midnight on a Friday hoping for an enormous money-centric bust.

Or maybe our federal agents are spending their free time bonding with our local po-po. Or maybe it’s SOP for our PD to phone up the revenooers when they take down these hardened gamblers, which seems to violate some principle of federalism to this hayseed. Dunno…someone go find out.

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