So by that argument, yes, RH should clearly be treated as an enemy combatant and sent to Guantanamo.

Sorry if I was misunderstood. When I say it makes sense to dismiss the legal criteria here, I don’t mean to imply some sort of punishment should be carried out outside of the law. Rather, I’m just referring to Tom’s point about withholding judgment because the law sez “innocent until proven guilty.” It doesn’t appear Hamilton will ever be proven guilty of anything here (other than perhaps the tax stuff); thus, it doesn’t seem to make sense to wait for the law to confirm/deny folks’ judgments.

So by that argument, yes, RH should clearly be treated as an enemy combatant and sent to Guantanamo.

One thing I do not get about this whole scenario, is why people are not going after Phil Hellmuth, Annie Duke and any other UB-sponsored famous players.

I think we can all agree that no penalty is too severe for Russ, and we can all hope and pray that someday he’ll get his. Ditto for any of his actual accomplices.

But when this whole thing broke, UB basically denied it until presented with clear proof. And it seems to me that Russ’s access to super-user accounts had to be related to his onetime ownership stake in either UB or the software company that did its progamming. It was not some random dude who pulled this off from the outside…it was someone who was connected to UB.

Are my facts wrong? Do I not have this right? If so please correct me…

As far as I am conerned, well-known poker pros who failed to end their sponsorship and business partnerships with UB as soon as this scandal became public have condoned cheating and are at least tacit accomplices, albeit after the fact, of the crooks who cheated their fellow poker players.

As a community, why have we tolerated this?

I do not play on UB anymore, and I never will. It galls me to no end that other players continue to patronize their business and pay their rake. But Phil and Annie and others still walk around shilling for these scumbags and it seems like we’ve given them a pass.

Maybe I’ve missed public statements these pros have made condemning the cheating and offering assistance to players who have been scammed and the like, but I hardly think that is sufficient. Poker is a community where honor plays a significant role, and as far as I am concerned anything short of immediately and publicly ending all affiliation with UB means they have squandered theirs.

I think it would be fair and effective if every time they showed up to play a tournament wearing their UB gear, the other players at the table called the floor over to protest having to be seated with known cheaters. I have every intention of doing this myself should I be seated with them in the future.

Were it not for the collective efforts of the poker community, this scam would never have been uncovered. I would think it would be up to us to bring enough pressure to bear on enough visible people that those responsible are properly punished.

Let me be clear that I am not suggesting that Phil Hellmuth, Annie Duke or other UB pros participated in or profited from Russ’s scam. I would imagine they are infuriated by it. But their continuing to profit from the organization that permitted it to happen and tried to cover it up entitles them to as much shame as we can heap upon them.

That’s just my opinion, and as I stated above–if my facts or interpretation of them are incorrect, I hope someone will duly correct me and I apologize for my ignorance…

Re: the appropriate onomatopeoia, high brow types generally go with “ptooey.”

Second, I’m too lazy read back through the comments to see who said they would play golf with O.J. or Hamilton. Dan, if that was you, have you learned nothing from me? I can’t tell you how disappointed i was to see Layne playing golf with the piece of shit. That to me is what the video was about. How the hell does the asshole find 3 other guys go play golf with? (don’t stop me about the preposition b.s., I’m on a roll).

The one thing this video did was to get me so pissed again about this whole thing. I have friends who borrowed money on their houses to pay off this asshole for loans he made to them while playing him heads up. I don’t have one ounce of innnocent until proven guilty left in me. Had he done to me what he’s done to others, I would for the first time in my life, (sans traffic tickets) feel good about breaking the law and living out the rest of my life in prison knowing I had rid the world of one of the most dispicable people in the poker world. i know that poker players around the world would visit me in jail. At least the game would be good. We’ll play for cigarettes.

Innocent until proven guilty thooow! OK, I don’t know how to write a spitting noise like you high brow writers.

Dan, I am OK leaving it to karma, but no one commenting on this site will ever see, feel or sense the ramifications of that karmic comeuppance.

Fair enough … but yes, I think there’s a reason Ken Lay died the way he did, there’s a reason OJ Simpson is in prison for the next decade, and there’s a reason Jeffrey Dahmer got taken out. Looking forward to seeing Dick Cheney’s fate.

I do hear what you’re saying as it pertains to poker, though, as all of us have seen too often the “bad people” get rewarded while the “good people” are still struggling and grinding.

FWIW, I’m not saying we should leave matters to The Force any more than we should leave them to the Kahnawake. But somebody, somewhere is going to see RH’s hole cards, and that will prove to be very bad for him.

With that said, what would be an appropriate punishment for someone who “allegedly” unjustly enriched themselves by Hamilton’s means? Prison would be a good place to start, but that’s still not fun enough.

Dan: “Am I the only one here who believes in karma, and that in the end, this guy (and the company whose hats he wears) will get exactly what he deserves?”

You expect Karma to take care of this? Anyone who believes in Karma hasn’t learned from history. People very rarely get what they deserve, for good or for bad.

My feeling on karma were summed up best by Han Solo: “Kid, I’ve flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I’ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I’ve never seen *anything* to make me believe that there’s one all-powerful Force controlling everything. ‘Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It’s all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.”

Though I will point to the above 20something comments to dispute the definition of the word “nothing” … I am OK with seeing this as the equivalent of junk food.

Have you ever eaten potato chips? I’m pretty sure you can’t live off of them, but temporarily, for a blip, they can be oh-so-satisfying.

I mean heck, can you imagine how this would all go down if RH wore fur? He should feel lucky that people aren’t throwing eggs at him in the grocery store.

I’m sure they will be soon, actually, or at least something equivalent.

Am I the only one here who believes in karma, and that in the end, this guy (and the company whose hats he wears) will get exactly what he deserves?

Earl said, “The comparisons of the Hamilton case to the Gowen/FTP issue is apples and oranges.”

You’re absolutely correct, of course. I only meant to compare the standard advice from lawyers in pending legal situations — SAY NOTHING! Your guilt or innocence is irrelevant to that advice, and the only time people talk about pending lawsuits is when there are extraordinary non-legal factors — like politics.

Poker Shrink said, “And for the record, expressing an opinion that the interview added nothing to the discussion is not an endorsement of Russ Hamilton”

Poker Shrink expressed my thoughts better than I did. I should have simply said, “That video added *nothing* to the discussion.”

What I wonder about is why everyone is so kind to Russ and the other crooks; why the “Alleged Cheater”? He did it! We all know he did it, the only problem is that he did it where no court has jurisdiction. So, yes he is going to get away with it. The bigggest angle shot in poker history.

I will say that the RawVegas people went the additional step that 60 Minutes didn’t. Instead of an alleged phone call to Hamilton’s home, they actually staked him out and put his feet to the fire. While it was fruitless, they actually out-worked what was at one time considered the bastion of investigative journalism.

The comparisons of the Hamilton case to the Gowen/FTP issue is apples and oranges. Where they are the same, however, is in that neither one will ever see a court. Trust me, there will be some negotiated settlement between Clonie and the PTB at FTP and we will never hear another word about it; at the same time, there isn’t a court in the world that has the jurisdictional custody to prosecute anyone involved with either the Hamilton/UB case or what happened at AP.

Anyone who feels a strong enough need to call him can take a little effort and track down his phone number. Does anyone here feel personally feel wronged? Did he personally take money from any of you? Then spend an hour of time and find his phone number yourself. Or, camp out at the country club and challenge him face to face, without a camera. But he still may not talk to you, because after this incident he probably fears a hidden tape recorder. (I’m not sure of the secret recording laws in Nevada; is it a one-party or a two-party state?)

If anyone wants to harass him on journalistic grounds, then write a full, in-depth article on the subject. You may not be able to get it published in Card Player or Bluff magazine (both of which probably still accept ads from Absolute and UB), but I’m sure Dan would happily post it for you here at Pokerati with full credit. Compile all the evidence, links to all statements on the scandal, excerpts from Barry Greenstein & Joe Sebok’s proxy interview with him on PokerRoad Radio, and then, in that context, you can ask him — again — if he has any comment on the situation. You probably won’t get a comment, but give him the chance, and then report “No comment” in your article. (Because he still won’t talk; he’s not stupid enough to ignore his lawyers’ advice.)

But Dan, keeping Russ Hamilton’s phone number posted here would be an implied endorsement of harassment. Pokerati is and always has been better than that.

What I am defending is (1) the Constitution of the United States, and (2) quality journalism.

I love Wicked Chops Poker, and I think that even though their site definitely brings the funny, more often than not they wrap it around good journalism. Unfortunately, this video they posted does neither for me.

This video apparently has value, if only because it has gotten so many people talking about the scandal again. And that’s good. But there is nothing newsbreaking about “Remember that guy who wouldn’t comment for a few months? Well, he’s still not commenting. And he’s playing golf.” For those of you who think this is newsworthy, did you forget all about this case? Out of sight, out of mind?

And unfortunately for the court of public opinion, we live in the United States of America. No matter how little he talks, or how guilty he looks, that’s not enough. Yes, it sucks that he might be able to commit a heinous crime and walk free. But that’s because our politicians think that our morals are better protected by making a safe and common recreational activity illegal rather than bringing it out in the open and regulating it. If that were the case, then Hamilton would have his day in court. (Much to his annoyance, I’m sure.)

But this … catching up with a guy who has dodged everything. Well the video really does tell more than people realize, or at least raises more questions.

* Why was he wearing a UBT hat? Does he have no animosity for being thrown under the bus by UB? Or is it his way of telling his friends/colleagues/golfers that he’s not a totally bad man, and that he’s still in good with them?

* Is Layne Flack carrying his bags?

* And what is Layne doing hanging out with Russ. I’m not saying that in and of itself is bad. Because honestly, I would golf with him, too, if I had the chance. But I also would’ve golfed with OJ Simpson.

I’m all for innocent-til-proven-guilty … but let’s call a spade a spade here. Even though it’s likely UB isn’t giving us the whole story, it is likely that RH was one of the major bad guys.

There are people out there I know of who’s lives have been in a downward spiral since “allegedly” getting cheated in heads-up matches against Russ. (And they haven’t gotten their refunds yet, because the money transfers between them and RH have them flagged for investigation.)

We’re talking people going broke, getting divorces, taking up drugs …

We should remember this was anything but a victimless crime here. And even if we do give Russ presumed innocence, there are still lots of people who want to know at least a little bit of what he knows, and a good person would be concerned with those folks and address them in some way — if even just to apologize for not being able to say more.

Heck, we ended up taking Russ’s cell phone number off this comment thread. But I still have kinda mixed feelings about that.

Maybe people SHOULD hassle him, and at least force him to get a new number … at which point at least the cell phone company would know who really really cares about staying in touch with the guy.

Why wouldnt he just say….

Talk to my attorney…

Or

My attorney’s are handling this….

And why do the guys who are walking out with him…
All the sudden duck and hang back….

It might not be great journalism… but, it wasnt
for lack of trying…

Maybe a one of them spy ear things and a round of golf
is needed…

Or should they have tortured him to get him talk…

This is the age of video and internet, and info moving a the
speed of light… things won’t be hidden as easily
as in times before….

Clonie is a poor analogy… she is the PLAINTIFF!
Lederer is a poor analogy… he will have his day in court. (if it isn’t settled by mutual agreement).

That’s a funny comparison, BJ, and a good point. But you know, if I didn’t know better, I’d probably be into what he’s spewing. I just so happened to have a good friend from my Libertarian days that ran against Blago for US Congress in 2000 (and got 13 percent — big numbers for a Lib) … and so for 8 years he has been telling me Blago is as crooked as they come.

So I’ll buy that. But anyhow — though I can’t seem to find the vids, my pal used to ambush Blago’s house with a video camera, asking him about his various crookednesses.

Too bad nobody listened?