BJ, don’t give away all my secrets!

Manually scraping and keeping up with everything is not a great option. But if the WPT made it easy for me to auto-scrape (or embed) certain things (like chip counts), they could use that as a way to drive people to more protectable content on their site.

Heck, they could even make your chip counts into a widget “presented by SPONSOR.com” … which would increase the value they are providing advertisers everytime someone else did post their stuff.

I’m tempted to move this convo over to Kevin’s post with the HSP YouTube episode … but then we’d start blurring the lines between forums and blogs, and I don’t even want to get into that blurry business.

@Kevin
Regarding the monetization of poker info-sharing … would you like me to send you another T-shirt?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/business/media/02scrape.html

Okay, this changes my YouTube argument a bit.

The networks (like GSN) don’t fear YouTube on computer screens, which is where it lives for most people now. If you re-watch the awesome Hulu commercial from the Superbowl, you’ll notice how Alec Baldwin talks about watching Hulu on your computer screens, your telephones, and other portable devices — but he specifically leaves out TVs. They do *not* want you watching Hulu on your big-screen TV.

(Yes, I know some people have that capability through a variety of methods, but it is nowhere near the mainstream … yet.)

If mainstream America can easily call up YouTube and Hulu videos on their big-screen TVs, you will see the relationship between TV networks and YouTube change quite a bit.

The difference between GSN and YouTube is far greater than the difference between WorldPokerTour.com and Pokerati.com. GSN won’t pay as much for the rights to episodes that continue to run on The Travel Channel. (And the Travel Channel would have payed far less the first time around if they weren’t guaranteed exclusivity.)

You can also do a full analysis of all the chip counts during the tournament, creating cool graphs that show different player’s progress and who knows what else. (Let’s be honest, *you* couldn’t do this. But I’m sure Kevmath could — and the WPT wouldn’t have a problem.)

What you can’t do is stream the same content at the same time, without facing some consequences. If a local NBC affiliate received a copy of “High Stakes Poker” and decided to run it in the same timeslot to help out their viewers who didn’t subscribe to cable, don’t you think they’d be receiving a phone call from GSN’s lawyers?

You’re also blurring the line between GSN and HSP in your points. Yes, HSP would *love* to appear on multiple channels in the short run, while GSN would *hate* it. HSP wants ratings, while GSN wants ad revenue. They are related goals, but not exactly the same. If HSP can’t control the distribution of their own product, then channels like GSN won’t be willing to pay for it. (Why pay if you — and others — can get it for free?)

P.S. — Teddy “Iceman” Monroe is a one-man WPT episode unto himself. He could have generated our highest ratings in years!

What’s a little odd about that is there are no ads in the after-runs. This convo is a very theoretical one, though, as we get into content distribution in the 21st century. I personally think wanna believe that those who share will thrive. But I could see so many other possibilities taking shape. I was going to make a comparison about how people wouldn’t pay to watch TV, but then I remembered cable.

WPT’s Live Updates are compatible with everything from Apple’s laptops to Dell’s towers to Linux-powered netbooks. Our updates can be viewed in different browsers (Safari, Firefox, Camino, Internet Explorer) and in both Mac and Windows.

Pokerati is comparable to a TV channel, not a TV manufacturer. And if you’ll notice, GSN is the only TV channel that has “High-Stakes Poker.” (And the only place where GSN receives ad revenue from the show.)

The only thing I might kinda sorta slightly disagree with you on is that HSP wouldn’t let others run streaming “live” video. GSN might not like that — depends on how their ad deals are for the show. But ultimately, the more eyeballs they can get on their show (and ads embedded into it) the better.

Though this comparison is a bit of a stretch, if you see Pokerati (or any other site for that matter) as just a viewing device, it’s kinda like making sure your show is compatible with both Sony AND Samsung TVs.

1. That stage of the tournament (final two tables) *was* exciting, but in a different way than most WPT events. The blind structure and type of players meant there was a much higher variance — from our point of view, it was much more of a pure numbers game than usual. (Meaning skill was less of a factor.)

I openly “jinxed” it when there were 8 players left, pointing out the five that I wanted at the final table (Iceman, Ali Nejad, Freddy Deeb, Scott Clements, and celeb Nick Rodriguez). I also said the best two players to make the final table would be Iceman and Ali Nejad, and of course they busted in 8th and 7th respectively.

Thankfully, I don’t believe in jinxes. Oh, if only I had that kind of power …

2. I’ve never argued that chip counts were copyrightable. But those who work against the system usually have to work outside of it. You don’t cover WPT events, so you don’t have much to lose. But at the WSOP, I know you enjoy having your pretty WSOP media badge, and wouldn’t sacrifice that by running constantly-updated chip counts here at Pokerati.

And yes, I agree that posting those chip counts here on Pokerati in that one post was a net benefit to the WPT’s Live Updates. (That opinion is my own, and may or may not represent the WPT’s views.)

3. Putting a clip on YouTube *after the episode airs* is more comparable to the fact that the WPT’s Casinos send out full lists of official chip counts at the end of each night. Everyone is encouraged to report those chip counts to their heart’s content.

High-Stakes Poker doesn’t stream their episodes to YouTube simultaneously with their debut on TV, or let other TV stations run the same program in the same timeslot. Chip counts are like comedy (in more ways than one) — timing is everything.

***It’s unfortunate that you screen-grabbed those chip counts right at the time that we were filling in all of the photos.***

You mean it’s unfortunate that I gave the WPT all those free links and brand promotion by relaying factual, uncopyrightable info? OK, sorry BJ, I semi-jest … maybe we can take some of this up on The Poker Beat.

I’m no technical guy (but I know a few) … but the WPT could look provide a “script” for websites to run their updates, so that everyone else’s website running tournament info would update along with the WPT site. I know this is a little antithetical to the WPT’s ownership philosophy, but it’s essentially the same thing that HSP does by putting their episodes up on YouTube and letting others embed.

It’s unfortunate that you screen-grabbed those chip counts right at the time that we were filling in all of the photos. (We have chip count photos for everyone on your list now.)