Backing into the (Oklahoma) Money

by , Aug 17, 2007 | 2:38 pm

chuckp.jpgThe former Rev. Good Chuck in Fort Worth wants to play in the $1,000 Red River Roundup main event, being put on by the mighty-noble-legendary Winstar tribe of Thackerville, OK. We all know he’s a pretty good player in few-hundred dollar tournaments, so he’s looking to try his hand at something a little bigger.

But he also wants to do it with a little backing love. He has a potential investor, and he’s trying to figure out the best, most sensible deal for both parties. His initial thought is to allow the backer 30 percent for $500, or 50 percent for $800. As you know, we learned a lot about backing deals during the WSOP, specifically that the “you buy me in and get your money back + 50 percent” isn’t necessarily the standard. So anyone got any thoughts on this?

Good Chuck is a good guy and a quality player, with proven mini-success in small tournaments. He cashes regularly, knows how to make final tables, and has the ability to pull it off and/or blow it when he makes the final three. His objective here is to hedge his bets in an attempt to smartly manage his bankroll, and to show his potential backer friend that putting him into tournaments could be a fun way to earn a nice return … decent chance of a small payoff, small chance of a sweet windfall.

Chuck Pettigrew evaluating play at the 2005 Lodge TOC

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A couple other possibilities Good Chuck (an accountant by trade) is thinking about: offering Good Backer a deal where Chuck refunds him $500 if he doesn’t cash … and/or a sliding scale where the deeper he gets, the the cash payout goes up, but the percentage goes down. These little addenda sound interesting, but might just confuse matters. Winstar, by the way, is hoping for 1,000 entries, which would make the prize pool a cool $1 million. But they don’t expect, as of now, to sell out. Still, the winner should expect to receive somewhere close to 23 percent of the overall prize pool.

UPDATE: It appears this is a $1,000 +100 tourney — $1,100 to play. So how does this affect what’s mathematically correct and morally righteous? I could swear I figured all this stuff out during the WSOP, but as I tried to explain to Chuck everything I knew, I could tell the numbers weren’t adding up.


7 Comments to “Backing into the (Oklahoma) Money”


  1. Uncle Ray
    says:

    You can’t have a simple formula for a backer because every tournament, every player and every backer is different.

    What is fair depends on the agreement of the two parties. How confident are you that you’ll cash? What are the chances of going really far?, etc.

    One thing, though, is the ridiculous idea of a refund if he doesn’t cash. If Chuck is going to refund half the money, then he should just back himself for half and only collect half from the backer. What’s the difference? Refunding $500 if you don’t cash and paying $500 of your own up front and not cashing are equal.

    The better his chances to cash or win, the lower the % he should pay the backer.


  2. DanM
    says:

    ***You can’t have a simple formula for a backer because every tournament, every player and every backer is different.***

    True enough, Uncle Ray, but there are definitely some standards that are more tried and true.

    For a while you could get a sense of them at beapokerboss.com, but that site appears to be down now.


  3. Robert "SANBOB" Sanchez
    says:

    I think every backing situation is different and there is no set formula. It boils down to what the player is willing to give up and how much the backer wants. If a known backer gets approached by a player then usually the backer is going to get a better deal then normal. If a backer approaches a player then the player has more say in the negotiations. I’ve seen people do a 50/50 split with the backer only giving half the buy in ala Steve Dannerman. I think the fair split is 100% buy in gets 50% of profit + buy in back, 50% buy in gets 25% of profit + backers portion of buy in back and so on. This is the formula I would use if I needed the money to buy in a tournament. If someone came to me and I didn’t need help I would give 40% of the profit to the backer for 100% of the buy in. This is of course what I would do but I have never played for a backer in the past in any big tournament {tournament over $1000.00) I have played in so I could be wrong. Hey Dan if you are know in the business of finding backers you are more then welcomed to find me a backer. Anyway there is no set guidelines just suggestions.


  4. Robert "SANBOB" Sanchez
    says:

    Hey Dan if you are know in the business of finding backers you are more then welcomed to find me a backer.

    It’s supposed to be

    Hey Dan if you are now in the business of finding backers you are more then welcomed to find me a backer.


  5. DanM
    says:

    [drinky commenting removed]


  6. David
    says:

    The Tribe is “chickasaw” (sorry to nick pic) but, only cause I am one…


  7. DanM
    says:

    No intent to offend, David … just trying to insinuate something about the corporate nature of tribal gaming.

    Your people have done good work.