Dealer Report: Cash Game Tips Noticeably Down
Just talked to one of my dealer sources — a reliable one, with decades worth of experience, not the sort who just likes to bitch after blowing a night’s worth of tips playing video poker … and she tells me, “In the six years I have been dealing here [at the WSOP] this is by far the worst.” She says she knows the economy is bad, “but this year they stiff you all the time. More of them.”
The worst game for dealers is supposedly 7-card stud (no relation to previous post), where she is regularly making $2-$3 a down (a half-hour shift).
Her best down so far has been $57. “But that only happened once.”
The tables that provide the best, or at least most reliable tips: $2/$5 no-limit, and $5/$10 PLO. “But never the highest stakes [$25/$50] PLO. Those guys never tip.”
Kevin Mathers says:
June 5th, 2009 at 9:15am
Speaking of tipping, there was a rumor that Ivey tipped his 96k win to the dealers.
Poker Shrink says:
June 5th, 2009 at 9:22am
My dealer insiders tell me that tips are down all across the felt, with the bigger games being the biggest stiffs.
tommytwotoes says:
June 5th, 2009 at 10:52am
of course the bigger games are going to stiff more often … they dont feel like chucking a $20-100 bill/chip etc every hand… and frankly dealers often get over tipped(or well i have seen it in the past).
take the example above … she said $57 for a 30 minute session? I hope she means a down is her entire shift(yes usually a down is what is in the tip bucket when they count it).
anyway if they are bitching about 114$ an hour that is insane… but i imagine its 57 for like a 8 hour shift or something… which is like $7 an hour… not good.
I wrote something up one time in reference to tipping… it went like this:
in a tournament .. 10% up to $10 an hour. so if you play and make in profit 200 and it took 3 hours you pay $20… if you make in profit 200 and it took an hour $10.
for cash games.
$5 per half hour if you are up from when they sat down. $0 otherwise. if half the people are winning at the table then they are making a good wage.
for the tournament example… the dealers are rotating in and out going to cash games etc… so they are making money there also…
so lets just say there were 6 dealers(started 6 tables)(typical choctaw/winstar tourney or underground tourney)… that likely made alot of money form tips in the cash games they rotated to… and they didnt all deal for the 6 hours of play…lets put 1 table out/busted per hour… 6×1….5×1…4X1…etc….21 dealer hours….
if everyone tipped what i mentioned above those ten would get
9-7th place $300 -225=75*10%…$7.5 each….thus $22.50.
6th $580-225..10%=…$35.5
5th $800?-225….10%= $57.5
4-1st $2085-225…*$10/hr=….60*4=240
$355.5 /21 hours= $16.92 an hour which i think is a great wage for dealing cards.
jurassicjenn says:
June 5th, 2009 at 11:41am
your logic is flawed. I don’t even know where to begin. Number one, people DONT tip the way you mentioned above. I suggest you become a dealer for just one year, then review the post you just made.
In MOST rooms, especially the WSOP, dealers do NOT rotate from tournament to cash games. If you start in tournament, you end in tournament, with a few exceptions. Same with cash games.
Yes, a $57 down seems exceptionally high, it is also NOT common. A good dealer can get out 17-20 of NLH in a half hour. With the expected $1 per hand tip, it is a somewhat acceptable wage, for the job at hand.
It is obvious you do not have any idea how complicated dealing is. It is physical, mental, and emotional. A dealer has to be able to multi-task, while disgarding outside numerous distractions. If you have dealt cards for any specific amount of time, you would know and understand this.
You know the adage “you get what you pay for.” Well the same is going on with dealers. If the money is not there, the good dealers won’t be either. And, I am sure you assume any lump can deal the cards. But try telling that to the table that is stuck with a slow dealer, with little or no game knowledge, getting out eight to ten hands per half hour, while the players are paying time, or the clock is running in a tournament.
The good dealers are leaving the premiere events in record numbers, because of the lower pay, and increased demands from players and staff. Why work somewhere where the pay is lower, and you are not treated with the upmost respect. If given the choice, would you work for $15/hr to be around the “big names of poker” or for $50/hr in some small out of the way place, where you are treated with respect?
As a player, Would you pay extra to ensure that you were dealt 36-42 hands per hour vs. 16-25?
You get what you pay for.
DanM says:
June 5th, 2009 at 5:54pm
***your logic is flawed … In MOST rooms, especially the WSOP, dealers do NOT rotate from tournament to cash games. If you start in tournament, you end in tournament, with a few exceptions. Same with cash games. … Yes, a $57 down seems exceptionally high, it is also NOT common. … It is obvious you do not have any idea how complicated dealing is. ***
Ah, JJ, thank you, but no … i’m just reporting what someone reported to me — no logic required. I understand that cash game dealers and tournament dealers are different at the WSOP. My apologies for not clarifying that in the hedline. Yes, $57 a down is very high … but that happened only once. It was the best down she had, and it doesn’t average out well with the multiple $2 and $3 downs she had dealing 7-stud and Big Game PLO.
I’ll withhold comment on my not having any idea what it takes to be a good dealer. I’m sure the dealers I’ve trained and/or hired throughout the years would tell you what I told them … which is it’s all about the average. Yes, you’ll have some great nights — but don’t expect those all the time, as without a doubt, you’ll have some shitty nights, too. (And nothing will hurt your tips more than copping a bitchy-whiney attitude when the crap tippers are at the table.)
FWIW, my source on this — who simply answered my question of “so how’s it goin’ this year?” — was not complaining. She’s skilled and experienced enough to know that she has to keep a smile on her face no matter what. She was just reporting the economic realities that she is anticipating at the end of the Series based on her first 8 days of work.
David Alexander says:
June 5th, 2009 at 4:35pm
Most dealers I know Make $30 – $40
per hour dealing… in cash games…
good money for the good dealers..
zachdealer says:
June 5th, 2009 at 5:46pm
I have’nt dealt the cash games yet this year but it’s usually average $12 a down at the wsop last year. I dealt a $500 satilite for 3 hours yesterday with one winner of $5k in chips and some money, the floor was shocked when the guy just walked off stiffing me. The guy who won was a pro but I’m not going to sit here and give him bad name, I just hope he catches the swine flu. Overall I know it will even out at the end of it all so I’m not that pissed about it.
Ben Matlock says:
June 5th, 2009 at 6:13pm
***It is obvious you do not have any idea how complicated dealing is. It is physical, mental, and emotional. A dealer has to be able to multi-task, while disgarding outside numerous distractions. If you have dealt cards for any specific amount of time, you would know and understand this.***
Give me a fricken break JJ. You aren’t working with autistic kids. Or designing rocket engines. Or slinging a sledge hammer at a construction job. You are flinging cards. Yes, the is a certain skill set required that makes excellent dealers vs. crappy dealers, but please don’t act like yourjob is SOOO emotional…or mental….or physical. I’ll give you 20 jobs that make less and are more emotional, physical, or certainly mental. Your statement is pure hyperbole, and if you ever speak or act like that while dealing, you deserve to be stiffed.
Now, maybe you are upset because you aren’t getting paid what you used to…well, get used to it. No one is.
Vinny B. says:
June 5th, 2009 at 8:53pm
I have played 2-5Nl with some so-called pros that I have also seen on TV. I have seen them time and again stiff dealers. I never do it. I’ll bet the dealers will tell you that the average Joe in town for a few games treats them way better than the so-called “pros.”
jurassicjenn says:
June 6th, 2009 at 1:52am
Dan my comment was directed at tommytwotoes comment. I don’t understand how you would even think it was about anything you reported.
Oh and Ben, I haven’t dealt since college. A long long, long, time ago. But, I have friends that deal, and I am avid player. I support them and they deserve to be paid a decent wage. Most people tend to forget that the majority of dealers do not get benefits or vacation or sick time. Insurance is expensive, and god forbid something happens and they can’t come to work. There is no holiday pay/sick pay.
I would rather have a CEO screaming at me about pending deadline, threatening to fire me if any little thing goes awry, than have to deal with a table full of high stakes professional poker players, and their pompous egos. Way less stress.
I can’t wait to get to Vegas!
grunkzzz says:
June 6th, 2009 at 2:00am
meh 1$ per hand. cash
7% tournament
We’re good.
DanM says:
June 6th, 2009 at 3:13am
Sorry JJ, I did cop a WhoTF-do-you-think-you’re-talking-to attitude. And while I like TTT’s mathematical approach to it, you are right that he forgets to factor in additional expenses that dealers need to compensate for — whether they be travel expenses, health insurance, whatever …
DanM says:
June 6th, 2009 at 3:17am
grunkzz, 7 percent tournament is a bit too simplistic, as it doesn’t take into account what has already been taken out for dealers (which differs from event to event) or overall prize pool.
If I were to happen to be fortunate enough to win, say, $5 million, I’m probably not tipping $350k. $50k, sure … $100k, maybe … depends on a lot of intangibles.
Mike K says:
September 1st, 2009 at 1:11am
I calculated how much I was dropping in tips at my poker room and almost fell over. I play about 30 hours per week. Between tipping for receiving a pot and tipping waitresses, $3 per hour. $4700. I was tipping $1 per pot won and $.50 – $1 per drink. I adopted the policy of not tipping unless I win a bet on third street or if the pot is less than $20. Maybe that’s cold, but I play low limit games and I am not willing to have the amount I tip be 1/3 of my annual winnings. I notice many low limit players tipping $2-$4 per pot won. They then wonder why they have no winnings at the end of the year. I think the dealers do pretty well. If they are not happy, get a job that does not rely on tips.